Hi Michelle! I make my living writing, but the kind of writing that pays my bills comes from freelance and contract gigs with Corporate America. Sadly, that’s also the kind of writing that kills my soul. My first book (literary fiction) was published in 2016, and although sales were semi-decent, it just broke even after everything I invested in publicity. My second book (memoir) is coming out in April 2026. I’ve learned a little more this time around, and I’m hoping to actually make a bit of profit on this one. I’m considering doing some more self-publishing as well (which is why I’m here! 😊) I have some YA in me, and I’d also like to try my hand at some mystery/thriller. I self-publish erotica under a pseudonym. 🤫 So “cobbling,” I understand. My goal is to ultimately replace my corporate gigs with all my cobbling, but I’m not quite there yet. Sadly, corporate writing pays pretty well, and I’ve been spoiled by that. I’m learning to pare down my expenses and live more simply. 💙
I’m in the filling in gaps by teaching English category! I feel like I’m in good company lol. Right now it’s mostly all gaps and the teaching leaves some gaps as well… but I hope for a brighter tomorrow ha ha. Right now I am serializing a serious literary novel that will not likely be shortlisted for prizes. Maybe someday I’ll write something with more commercial viability!
Listen, I started out doing romance novels because I thought they would sell and that nobody would read the kinds of books I really wanted to read, but I was dead wrong. The Trailer Park Rules has done pretty darned well -- better than the genre novels. So write whatever sort of book you truly want to write.
I was nodding along, Michelle, chuckling too. This really resonated. Wow, that one viral story did amazing for you. So lucky, and it was brilliant!! I've had two go viral, but they didn't make that kind of money. I still do well on Medium, although last month was pretty shitty. We'd all starve if we depended on making a living from our writing. 🙄
I have to say, I don't think I'd ask for much more for myself, even if the tortillas are still a bit odd here.
& I am, for the sake of the chat here, also working on a book about my mother's story. I know, I know... Hers is framed in the middle of the 20th century US, from the children of immigrants in Brooklyn until her death and a kind of Just How Did We Get Here look at America.
I finished "Trailer Park Rules" last night. Jonesy's grief at knowing that his dream will never come true touched me. When you drive through any college campus at 3:AM, the only building with the lights still on will be the architecture building. It's full of young people just like Jonesy who are designing dreams for themselves and their futures that will never be realized. Not a chance in hell. They will chase their dreams all the way through their youth and well into maturity before they realize that love and idealism are not enough; that you can't have a home and family and spend every waking hour in the design studio; that Utopia really is No Place. You, young architect, will have to choose. And then will come the lay-offs, the year(s) when no one is building anything anywhere, and they wont be able bring themselves so low as to apply for a job at Home Depot. That's when they will enter design competitions with the dream that they will be "The One", like Keanu Reeves fighting the Matrix or maybe Maya Lin, when she won the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Design Competition in 1981 (over 1400 entries as I recall). I chased my dream for 35 years and I can tell you that giving it up to join the rest of the world was the smartest, most lucid adult decision I ever made...that was 20 years ago and I have no regrets but are still days when I think back... you know, it could have been me.
In the mid 1990s I was the pet architect for the AH Belo in Dallas. Dallas Morning News Capital Bureau project in Washington, WFAA TV8 in Dallas, WWL TV 4 New Orleans. Sweet days. Fantastic people. What happened to you happened to many in those news rooms. Some retired, some changed careers, some died. I still exchange Christmas cards with Carl Leubsdorf who still writes for the DMN, in his 80s now I guess. I thought your novel was engaging and entertaining. I made noise when I read the “…put the baby on lay-away” line and then again when Darren got shot in the middle of his kink.” My wife stole it out of my office this morning. Happy Day!
Me, I will be totally gobsmacked if we (my wife writes books for kids; I have an anthology out using my stuff initially published on Medium) break even on self-publishing, considering illustrator costs and editor costs. OTOH no profit means we don't pay taxes on it, so there's $28.42 less going to the IRS last year. And that was a GOOD year. 😐
But it's been fun, it's always a thrill when that first proof arrives in the mail, and we've enjoyed going to book fairs and author lectures (Deb gives a great "How to write a story" presentation aimed at middle schoolers). Not to mention the fun of having our grand-nephew show up for trick-or-treat at our house dressed as one of her characters.
Deb's three books are the Caitlyn's Adventures series, available on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Caitlyns-Adventure-Debra-Herlocker-ebook/dp/B004HYHCJ2/ref=sr_1_2), illustrated by Valerie Bouthyette. Stories about a caterpillar (later a butterfly) with glasses who wants to learn all about the world, but also helps her friends (who often need help).
I am currently working on "The Story of Gunther," which will be part of Caitlyn's Adventures. I am working with a different illustrator than Deb used — a longtime friend (Nancy) who has never done illustrations before, so it's a mutual learning process. She asks for feedback a lot (no problem) and asks questions, some of which have changed the story (so Gunther is now non-binary because Nancy didn't know if she was making him boyish enough, leading to a question of why gargoyles have to be only male or female when, based on cathedrals, many are neither or both). I've never collaborated before, so this is fun.
I had to adjust at first, because when I thought "editor" I thought of my editor when I was a tech writer. Totally different gig. While Roz:
• Gives a piece a quick read to determine if it's even worth spending time on. The first thing I ever gave her was an old story I'd written years before; I was looking for suggestions to improve it. Roz hit me with, "I've read through this entire story, and you have not given me a single reason to care about either main character. Why should I?" And I realized, damn! Even I, the author, didn't care about these two jerks — I'd written the story as a concept piece with a twist, but I liked neither character. So I dumped the story and moved on.
• Points out plot holes, inconsistencies, and general weak spots. Those were usually easy to fix, but I had not noticed those on my own.
• Does the picky stuff, like noun/verb agreements and so on. I have my own in-house proofreader for that part. 😁
I never made more than $20 per hour, even as the editor of a daily newspaper, and that was salary. Since I actually worked at least 60 hours per week, that meant my pay was really around $13 per hour.
I am very, very frugal. My car is 20 years old. My house cost less than $100K. I make most of our food from scratch, hang up our laundry to dry, keep the house pretty cold in winter and hot in summer and generally never spend anything if I can help it. We're pretty creative around here and save money in lots of crazy ways. Most of our furniture is vintage. Some of it I literally picked up off the street. We made some of our kitchen cabinets from scrap wood. Our backyard is full of stuff like a treehouse made of free scrap wood.
Those who click my Ko-fi link can rest assured I use that money very, very wisely!
My second nursing job only paid $16 an hour. We had 2 babies close together. I am not sorry for those struggles. Families cannot survive on low pay like that. Thankfully I was able to get a raise but I worked on holidays and weekends and you miss things. Some nurses were excellent but were only source of income for their family. One had 5 boys and she worked night shift and her husband left her so she raised them herself and to save money she used to change her own oil. But we saw so many patients give birth who were so poor. Seen a lot of bad things. I know as a society we could do much better. Now women are forced to give birth and we (MD and (RN) in some states can be arrested for things like ectopic pregnancy that has to get removed. It’s too bad we can’t focus on lifting everyone up instead of all this suffering.
I've wanted to write fiction my whole life. To that end, I've been working on my stories for the last decade. I'll probably self-publish because I can't write fast. Before they died both my aunt & mother told me, "Margie, write your stories." I've got 3 great writing buddies that have even a lifeline. I doubt I'll make a profit. I consider breaking even a win. I'm writing book 2 of a 3-part series. Am letting my sci-fi story rest, and give up on my French historical novels because I didn't have enough confidence or skill. I also dabble with poetry when the muse strikes hot.
Hi Michelle! I make my living writing, but the kind of writing that pays my bills comes from freelance and contract gigs with Corporate America. Sadly, that’s also the kind of writing that kills my soul. My first book (literary fiction) was published in 2016, and although sales were semi-decent, it just broke even after everything I invested in publicity. My second book (memoir) is coming out in April 2026. I’ve learned a little more this time around, and I’m hoping to actually make a bit of profit on this one. I’m considering doing some more self-publishing as well (which is why I’m here! 😊) I have some YA in me, and I’d also like to try my hand at some mystery/thriller. I self-publish erotica under a pseudonym. 🤫 So “cobbling,” I understand. My goal is to ultimately replace my corporate gigs with all my cobbling, but I’m not quite there yet. Sadly, corporate writing pays pretty well, and I’ve been spoiled by that. I’m learning to pare down my expenses and live more simply. 💙
Can I interest you in my bean loaf recipe? :)
I tried to get a corporate writing gig, actually. Just wasn’t able to land one. Might have been for the best.
I’m in the filling in gaps by teaching English category! I feel like I’m in good company lol. Right now it’s mostly all gaps and the teaching leaves some gaps as well… but I hope for a brighter tomorrow ha ha. Right now I am serializing a serious literary novel that will not likely be shortlisted for prizes. Maybe someday I’ll write something with more commercial viability!
You're in very good company here!
Listen, I started out doing romance novels because I thought they would sell and that nobody would read the kinds of books I really wanted to read, but I was dead wrong. The Trailer Park Rules has done pretty darned well -- better than the genre novels. So write whatever sort of book you truly want to write.
I was nodding along, Michelle, chuckling too. This really resonated. Wow, that one viral story did amazing for you. So lucky, and it was brilliant!! I've had two go viral, but they didn't make that kind of money. I still do well on Medium, although last month was pretty shitty. We'd all starve if we depended on making a living from our writing. 🙄
Nice 👍 🥰
I have to say, I don't think I'd ask for much more for myself, even if the tortillas are still a bit odd here.
& I am, for the sake of the chat here, also working on a book about my mother's story. I know, I know... Hers is framed in the middle of the 20th century US, from the children of immigrants in Brooklyn until her death and a kind of Just How Did We Get Here look at America.
I'll work on the pitch.
That sounds like a good a story and yes, work on that pitch!
I finished "Trailer Park Rules" last night. Jonesy's grief at knowing that his dream will never come true touched me. When you drive through any college campus at 3:AM, the only building with the lights still on will be the architecture building. It's full of young people just like Jonesy who are designing dreams for themselves and their futures that will never be realized. Not a chance in hell. They will chase their dreams all the way through their youth and well into maturity before they realize that love and idealism are not enough; that you can't have a home and family and spend every waking hour in the design studio; that Utopia really is No Place. You, young architect, will have to choose. And then will come the lay-offs, the year(s) when no one is building anything anywhere, and they wont be able bring themselves so low as to apply for a job at Home Depot. That's when they will enter design competitions with the dream that they will be "The One", like Keanu Reeves fighting the Matrix or maybe Maya Lin, when she won the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Design Competition in 1981 (over 1400 entries as I recall). I chased my dream for 35 years and I can tell you that giving it up to join the rest of the world was the smartest, most lucid adult decision I ever made...that was 20 years ago and I have no regrets but are still days when I think back... you know, it could have been me.
It was as nearly 10 years ago that I was laid off from my job as editor of a daily. My heart still hasn’t healed.
I’ll miss that career forever.
In the mid 1990s I was the pet architect for the AH Belo in Dallas. Dallas Morning News Capital Bureau project in Washington, WFAA TV8 in Dallas, WWL TV 4 New Orleans. Sweet days. Fantastic people. What happened to you happened to many in those news rooms. Some retired, some changed careers, some died. I still exchange Christmas cards with Carl Leubsdorf who still writes for the DMN, in his 80s now I guess. I thought your novel was engaging and entertaining. I made noise when I read the “…put the baby on lay-away” line and then again when Darren got shot in the middle of his kink.” My wife stole it out of my office this morning. Happy Day!
Me, I will be totally gobsmacked if we (my wife writes books for kids; I have an anthology out using my stuff initially published on Medium) break even on self-publishing, considering illustrator costs and editor costs. OTOH no profit means we don't pay taxes on it, so there's $28.42 less going to the IRS last year. And that was a GOOD year. 😐
But it's been fun, it's always a thrill when that first proof arrives in the mail, and we've enjoyed going to book fairs and author lectures (Deb gives a great "How to write a story" presentation aimed at middle schoolers). Not to mention the fun of having our grand-nephew show up for trick-or-treat at our house dressed as one of her characters.
Tell us more about your books! What are you working on now?
Deb's three books are the Caitlyn's Adventures series, available on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Caitlyns-Adventure-Debra-Herlocker-ebook/dp/B004HYHCJ2/ref=sr_1_2), illustrated by Valerie Bouthyette. Stories about a caterpillar (later a butterfly) with glasses who wants to learn all about the world, but also helps her friends (who often need help).
My book is Intersections: Stories, Chats, Truths, and Verses. It's a collection of fiction, non-fiction, and poetry, plus heart-to-heart chats with my best friend, partner, and wife, using pieces I first published on Medium. I employed an editor (Roz Warren, who has been on Medium for years but has also started posting on Substack) who helped with 👍👎 ("I see what you're trying to do, but I still don't buy the premise of this story") and tweaks ("So why didn't they just hold the guy until the cops showed up?"). Available on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Intersections-collection-non-fiction-heart-heart/dp/B0DNN1Y9M5/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_pdt_img_top) and Apple Books (https://books.apple.com/us/book/intersections-stories-chats-truths-and-verses/id6737633886).
I am currently working on "The Story of Gunther," which will be part of Caitlyn's Adventures. I am working with a different illustrator than Deb used — a longtime friend (Nancy) who has never done illustrations before, so it's a mutual learning process. She asks for feedback a lot (no problem) and asks questions, some of which have changed the story (so Gunther is now non-binary because Nancy didn't know if she was making him boyish enough, leading to a question of why gargoyles have to be only male or female when, based on cathedrals, many are neither or both). I've never collaborated before, so this is fun.
Thanks for asking, Michelle! 😊
Roz rocks!
Roz does! 😊
I had to adjust at first, because when I thought "editor" I thought of my editor when I was a tech writer. Totally different gig. While Roz:
• Gives a piece a quick read to determine if it's even worth spending time on. The first thing I ever gave her was an old story I'd written years before; I was looking for suggestions to improve it. Roz hit me with, "I've read through this entire story, and you have not given me a single reason to care about either main character. Why should I?" And I realized, damn! Even I, the author, didn't care about these two jerks — I'd written the story as a concept piece with a twist, but I liked neither character. So I dumped the story and moved on.
• Points out plot holes, inconsistencies, and general weak spots. Those were usually easy to fix, but I had not noticed those on my own.
• Does the picky stuff, like noun/verb agreements and so on. I have my own in-house proofreader for that part. 😁
How can anyone survive on $16.50 an hour? I earned that years ago
I never made more than $20 per hour, even as the editor of a daily newspaper, and that was salary. Since I actually worked at least 60 hours per week, that meant my pay was really around $13 per hour.
I am very, very frugal. My car is 20 years old. My house cost less than $100K. I make most of our food from scratch, hang up our laundry to dry, keep the house pretty cold in winter and hot in summer and generally never spend anything if I can help it. We're pretty creative around here and save money in lots of crazy ways. Most of our furniture is vintage. Some of it I literally picked up off the street. We made some of our kitchen cabinets from scrap wood. Our backyard is full of stuff like a treehouse made of free scrap wood.
Those who click my Ko-fi link can rest assured I use that money very, very wisely!
My second nursing job only paid $16 an hour. We had 2 babies close together. I am not sorry for those struggles. Families cannot survive on low pay like that. Thankfully I was able to get a raise but I worked on holidays and weekends and you miss things. Some nurses were excellent but were only source of income for their family. One had 5 boys and she worked night shift and her husband left her so she raised them herself and to save money she used to change her own oil. But we saw so many patients give birth who were so poor. Seen a lot of bad things. I know as a society we could do much better. Now women are forced to give birth and we (MD and (RN) in some states can be arrested for things like ectopic pregnancy that has to get removed. It’s too bad we can’t focus on lifting everyone up instead of all this suffering.
I've wanted to write fiction my whole life. To that end, I've been working on my stories for the last decade. I'll probably self-publish because I can't write fast. Before they died both my aunt & mother told me, "Margie, write your stories." I've got 3 great writing buddies that have even a lifeline. I doubt I'll make a profit. I consider breaking even a win. I'm writing book 2 of a 3-part series. Am letting my sci-fi story rest, and give up on my French historical novels because I didn't have enough confidence or skill. I also dabble with poetry when the muse strikes hot.